How making radio is like falling in love ft. Misha Euceph
Hiya! Welcome back to Starting Out from me and Transom.
A few weeks ago I sent out a survey to hear what’s working with the newsletter so far and what you’d like to see in the new year. Thank you all for such thoughtful feedback!
One thing I noticed is that some readers who just subscribed requested resources or interviews that we’ve included in past issues. This is great, because it means I can give you what you want right now. Check out the newsletter archives to catch up on interviews with people like Tobin Low and Kathy Tu and with resource guides on programs like ProTools and Hindenburg.
I can’t wait for y’all to read my interview with Misha Euceph, founder of Dustlight Productions. Misha was one of the first people to encourage me to launch this newsletter. That woman can give a hell of a pep talk. I’m so glad I got to interview her for the newsletter— we went deep on fighting for ownership of projects and building an equitable workplace.
P.S. As the year comes to a close, please consider sending a couple bucks Transom’s way. If that’s not in your budget, no stress. But if you’re established in the industry and want to pay it forward, this would be a great way. Transom makes this newsletter possible and helps keep it free for everyone, no matter what.
Interview with Misha Euceph
Misha Euceph, founder of Dustlight Productions
Alice: Is there a moment early in your career where you were like, “Oh, this is the thing that I want to do.”
Misha: I probably have versions of that moment over and over again. But the very first time it happened, I was working at my college radio station. I had almost been kicked out of college and I was very depressed and I was like, “I don't know what I'm doing with my life.” And I decided to take the quarter off. And I was working at the UC Irvine radio station, KUCI, and my friend Isaac had this show on Mondays called Dates and Other Mistakes.
And I remember, Alice, it was like the worst time of my life up until that point. I'm unsure about my future in college. I had just been dumped from this very toxic relationship. My parents were super disappointed.
And I remember I would like to go to the tiny little radio station. And I would walk in and I would just feel like, “Oh my gosh, I'm at home.”
And the little butterflies I would get about operating the boards and, you know, the prep that we’d done for our guests or the mistake we'd make on air. All of that felt like the way that you feel when you finally fall in love with somebody and you feel like, “This person is the love of my life.”
This is what it was supposed to feel like, like all these things that I thought I was interested in, like law — all of that felt like a toxic relationship and this felt so enlightening.
AW: It really does kind of feel like that moment in a movie where the people lock eyes.
ME: It's weird to talk about work stuff as romantic, but it felt romantic, it felt meant to be.
AW: No, I've totally described jobs that way before, good and bad. I've been like, “Wow, I really sound like I'm describing a bad boyfriend, but it's a major public radio station.”
ME: [Laughs] Oh my gosh. Yeah, we won't name names, but we might name names.
Resources
As Misha said, figuring out how to navigate pay can be overwhelming. To be honest, it’s something I still struggle with. When I was a teenage babysitter I was mortified to talk about money with parents. I absolutely failed as a Girl Scout because I hated knocking on people’s doors and asking them to buy something (even though as an adult, I actively seek out Scouts who will let me buy cookies from them).
I was able to push through the discomfort when I learned that not talking about money helps wealthy and powerful organizations to underpay and exploit workers. When we don’t share rates, it empowers them to pay people less for their labor. In that context, my personal discomfort became a lot less important and got easier to be brave.
All of this is to say that I’m not a fearless expert. And this isn’t an exhaustive resource guide. But I hope that it’s helpful as you have those initial conversations about money with employers.
Figuring out the basics:
AIR, The Association of Independents in Radio, has an excellent set of guides for audio work. It’s indispensable. When someone offers you a gig, make it a habit to check their offer against the AIR rates to make sure it’s fair. That being said, they’re guidelines, so you shouldn’t hesitate to ask for more.
Werk It (RIP) published a great report on podcasting rates back in 2019 (so keep in mind that it’s a bit out of date). It’ll help you get a sense of what the landscape is like, so if you’re being lowballed you can spot it.
The Freelance Solidarity Project has a rate sharing database. It’s worth searching job titles to see what people with similar titles and experience are being paid. If you’re currently employed, I recommend submitting your rates to the project (it’s all anonymous) so that you can help build the database.
Matriarch Digital Media is currently running a survey to learn more about pay disparities in podcasting, and I can't wait to see the results. Again, if you’re employed in the industry, consider participating in the survey.
Reading:
I love Ask A Manager (aka Alison Green) and consult the site all the time. I like this article on how to ask for more money when you’re offered a job. And this interview with a budget and money coach is helpful too.
It’s worth familiarizing yourself with freelance pay legislation— some places have laws that require clients to pay you in a reasonable timeframe.
Listening:
This is Uncomfortable is my favorite podcast about money because they always hit on my anxieties around money. I love this episode about unpaid interns working for basic fair treatment. If you’re trying to organize your workplace for better pay (or pay, period) I think you’ll get a lot out of it.
My friend Alex, who writes the excellent Cohort newsletter for Poynter recommended the Writers Coop Podcast, specifically these episodes on navigating pay.
If you’re trying to figure out your financial life from scratch, I think that NPR’s Life Kit has some great resources.
Classifieds
Internships:
Intern, The Journal
Intern, Rooster Teeth
Intern, Neon Hum ($15/hr)
Intern for 99% Invisible, Sirius XM ($15/hr)
Korva Coleman Internship, KMUW ($5,000 stipend, with free room and board)
Fellowship:
Above the Fray Fellowship, The John Alexander Project
Associate/Assistant Producer:
Associate Producer, On the Media, New York Public Radio
Production Assistant, Western Sound (40k – 52k)
Assistant Podcast Producer, The University of Chicago
Associate Producer, Al Jazeera
Plus: Report for America is hiring reporters. Some of these roles are at public radio stations!