Daniel Alarcón thrives on wonder🌅
Hi y'all!
Welcome back to Starting Out from me and Transom.
What a few weeks it’s been. It’s unrelentingly hot here in North Carolina — rain shows up on the forecast every day but never materializes. I can feel the dry grass crunch under my feet when I walk across the yard. It feels like half of the social events on my calendar are fundraisers for my local abortion fund. My podcast feed has been a steady march of coverage of the week’s latest horrors, so I’ve largely switched to audiobooks.
The question I’m asking myself is this: how can I manage all of this sustainably? What do I need to do to show up consistently for my community through the onslaught of bad news and rising temperatures.
Abortion fund staffers all over the country have said that they get an influx of donations when there’s a huge blow to access, but that what they need most are recurring donations, consistent funding, even just $5 or $10 a month, that they can use to plan budgets.
It’s a useful way to think about how we’re responding to the various crises we face. Can we feel our rage over all of the crises we’re facing, but not burn all that energy in one go? Is it possible to give a smaller amount consistently and stay in the fight long term?
I’m inspired by the question that journalist and novelist Daniel Alarcón posed in our interview this month — or rather the question that his son posed to him: what would make the place where you live unrecognizable? If right now all we can see is dead grass and rising temperatures, can we at least imagine things being different? Can we meet the crisis around us without succumbing to cynicism and nihilism, imagining that radical positive change is still possible even if that doesn’t feel true right now?
To take it back to our work as radio and podcast makers: what would make this industry feel completely different? What’s your biggest dream for the way we work right now? If you could wake up tomorrow and face a radically different landscape of work, what would that look like, sound like, feel like? Just reply to this message, I’d love to hear your answers.
Alice: You’ve talked in the past about being led by a certain kind of curiosity in your work. Is there anything you’re particularly curious about at the moment?
Daniel: I think like a lot of people I thrive on a feeling of wonder. And I’m incredibly privileged and lucky to be able to seek out wonder for a living. I’m interested in the ways people cope with things that I feel like I would crumble under. I’m interested in the ways people find joy in spite of their circumstances. I’m curious about cultures and subcultures that are completely different from my own. I’m basically interested in anything that helps me contextualize myself.
Today I was walking my kid to school and he was talking to me saying that New York is the craziest city in the world and I was like, “You know what? It really isn’t. It really isn’t at all. We literally live on a grid of right angled streets. This is not a crazy city, let me tell you about some crazy cities.” And I started talking about some places I’ve been. And he was completely fascinated and appalled and amazed. I could see the wonder in his eyes like, wow, it’s a big world out there. I thought it was a tiny dad win, I don’t know if I’m making any sense.
Alice: No, you are. I love how kids pick a subject and just get obsessed for a couple of years, and make themselves experts on it. It’s kind of a familiar instinct as a journalist, although kids don’t then turn around and write a feature on dinosaurs or trains.
Daniel: His most recent thing is, he will ask me, “What’s one thing you could change that would make [this] unrecognizable.” So one thing that would make our building unrecognizable, make our neighborhood unrecognizable, make New York unrecognizable. It kind of zooms out and out and out.
I don’t know where the hell this question came from, but it’s a pretty interesting thing to think about. And sometimes I’ll really be stumped. And in the rules of this game it could be a physical thing — take away taxi cabs, or a cultural thing — make people nice. It’s a really interesting way of thinking about the world and I’ve been completely mesmerized by the game.
Alice: I know that you were a fan of radio for a long time before you started Radio Ambulante. Was there a particular thing that you listened to that made you say, “I want to try to make something like that?”
Daniel: Before I answer that, let me tell you the backstory: one of my father’s first jobs as a young man was as a soccer announcer on a big radio station in his hometown of Peru. So I was very aware of the stories of radio from when I was a kid. And then in the eighties, when I grew up, you’d never call Peru, because it was too expensive. And if you got a phone call from Peru in the middle of the night it was usually bad news, or it was a birthday.
So what happened instead was that we would make these cassette tapes and put them in the mail and send them; and I didn’t realize it at the time, but those were little radio variety shows that we were making. My sisters would read a poem, my dad would interview us about how we’re doing in school, someone might sing a song, and then that would go in the mail. Then my cousins in Peru would send a cassette set back with updates from the family, and this was how we communicated with our family. That was my first radio production.
Resources
I bet that many of y’all are in the middle of a summer internship or fellowship right now. So I want to share some advice that I give to pretty much every intern I speak to: take a coffee break. Specifically, get a coffee (or whatever beverage you love) with a coworker.
I spent a substantial part of my internship at NPR pacing around Bryant Park with Planet Money producers. They weren’t “networking” meetings exactly. I came into every coffee meeting with a specific problem that I wanted their help with: moving a pitch from a topic to a story, or finding a compelling character for a story. I learned a lot about producing (and dodging meandering tourists) on these walks.
I’ve found that this “problem solving” coffee is much more helpful than having a more general conversation about career. Of course it’s helpful to share your dreams and roadblocks, but nothing creates a relationship like working through a problem.
For many people, this is easier said than done. I’ve heard a lot of people express anxiety about asking coworkers to meet one on one, so let’s go through some of the roadblocks and ways to move around them:
1) You’re working remotely. I’m a big fan of working from home but it does make you less likely to be able to physically go for a casual walk with a coworker. If you’re in the same city as your co-workers you could do some advance planning to meet up during the workday. If not, you can still walk and talk with someone, but that might have to happen over the phone. After a day filled with Zoom meetings I bet that your coworker will be relieved to have an excuse to spend some time outside and away from their desk. I’ve spent many late afternoons walking around the block and chatting with aspiring podcast producers.
2) Your co-workers are busy and you don’t want to bother them. If you have the sense that your co-workers are really overwhelmed you’re probably right. Ask anyway. Hiring an intern is a two-way street. Your employer gets cheap labor and someone to do the daily tasks that most of the team dislikes (often called “shit work”). In return, they are responsible for teaching you new skills and investing time in you. That includes things like going out for coffee and giving advice. You’re not asking for special treatment, this is part of their job. Radio people are generally pretty nice; if you ask someone for 15-30 minutes of their time, they’ll probably say “yes!” or “yes, but can we schedule it for a time when I’m less busy.” The worst that can happen is they say no, and that says something about them, not you.
3) You don’t know what to talk about. One of my friends recommended coming into a coffee conversation with a specific goal in mind, the same way you would while interviewing a source. This doesn’t mean that you’re going to literally have a long list of questions the way you might with a source. But having an aimless conversation isn’t a good use of your time. Here’s a couple of questions to think about if you want to get to know a co-worker better but don’t know what to talk about:
Are there story ideas that you’re thinking about pitching and want to talk through with someone?
Do you have questions about how the show gets made or what that person’s job entails?
Are you struggling with a particular task in your day-to-day job and want to problem solve with someone?
Are you feeling isolated in remote work and want to get some recommendations on how to connect more with your team?
Do you have a specific goal for your internship and want to brainstorm steps to accomplishing it?
I think that asking for advice tends to be the most fruitful line of conversation. I’m hesitant to tell you not to ask any particular question, but I do want to suggest skipping a relatively common one, “How did you get to where you are now?” I’ve been on both sides of this question and I don’t think it’s essential. My particular podcast origin story is so specific to my life that I don’t know if it would be helpful to anyone else. If you’re looking to get to know someone better, try switching that question to “What’s your favorite part of your job?” or “When did you fall in love with this medium?”
4) You’re intimidated by them. This is very real, especially if you’re working for a show that you’re a massive fan of. Before I moved to New York and took on my first full-time internships, my old boss Lauren Spohrer gave me a great piece of advice: you want these people to be your co-workers one day, so treat them like co-workers, not rock stars. It’s difficult to build a relationship with someone when they’re up on a pedestal and you’re a spectator (or vice versa). And it’s hard to communicate on equal footing if you start your conversation with lavish praise. It’s okay to be excited about having coffee with a radio hero, but save the fangirling for your group chat. Remember that your faves are just people. They’ve been in your position and likely want to support you in your career journey. Treat them the same way that you’d treat any other co-worker: with warmth and respect.
Two last pieces of advice before I go back out into the garden:
Don’t limit yourself to your direct co-workers when you’re thinking about who you want to ask for coffee. Take New York Public Radio for example: there’s a live events space, in-house lawyers, a PR team and a sponsorship team (among many others). So if you’ve always been curious about organizing a successful pledge drive or promoting a podcast this would be a good time to reach out.
Prioritize getting to know the other interns. I loved getting to know my Planet Money co-workers while walking through midtown. But some of my fondest memories of my internship at NPR were with the other interns. On Wednesdays we would eat our packed lunches in an empty conference room. We’d go to Whole Foods and sample all of the expensive organic skin creams and commiserate. If anxiety levels were particularly high, we’d walk across the park to Muji to smell essential oils. When you make a mistake at work (and you will) the people at the same level as you are going to be the best at picking you back up. If you’re lucky, you’ll get to progress through the industry together for years to come, sharing opportunities and advice along the way.
Classifieds
Internships
The Takeaway, New York Public Radio ($17.50/hour)
All of It, NYPR ($17.50/hour)
Death Sex & Money, NYPR ($17.50/hour)
New Yorker Radio Hour, NYPR ($17.50/hour)
On the Media, NYPR ($17.50/hour)
Radiolab, NYPR ($17.50/hour)
The Brian Lehrer Show, NYPR ($17.50/hr)
The United States of Anxiety, NYPR ($17.50/hr)
WNYC and Gothamist Newsroom Internship, NYPR ($17.50/hr)
WQXR Internship, NYPR ($17.50/hour)
WNYC Studios Podcast Development Internship NYPR ($17.50/hr)
KEUR Fall News Intern, KEUR ($12/hr)
Brave Little State Internship, Vermont Public Radio ($17/hr)
Witness Doc Intern, Stitcher (Stitcher did not share rates)
99% Invisible Intern, Stitcher (Stitcher did not share rates)
Earwolf Intern, Stitcher (Stitcher did not share rates)
Podcast & Radio Programming Intern, Sirius XM (Sirius XM did not share rates)
Editor Intern, Stitcher (Stitcher did not share rates)
Associate Producer/Assistant Producer/Etc
The Takeaway, NYPR (NYPR did not share rates)
Production Assistant, KEUR ($17-20/hr)
Reporter
Reporter/Producer, KEUR ($47,000/yr - $51,000/yr)
Host/Reporter, The San Francisco Public Press ($60,000/yr)
Reporter, Cincinnati Public Radio ($48,000-$55,000/yr)
If you are hiring interns, fellows or other entry level positions, send your job postings and rates to startingout [at] transom [dot] org and I’ll list them in the next issue. Please note that Starting Out features only paid opportunities.