How to get your first job
Hey y'all!
Welcome back to Starting Out from me and Transom. We took September off for some much needed rest, and so that I could prep a new season of interviews and resources for y’all.
One of the questions I’ve heard the most is how to make the jump from intern to full time roles like Associate Producer. I remember when I finished my last internship and started applying for AP roles, feeling like I was sort of floating through space looking for a foothold. Ultimately you just need one person to say “yes” to you in order to get that first gig. But the road to that point can be demoralizing. This month’s interview and resource guide are all about how to get to that first “yes” from a hiring manager.
If you are reading this and you are in the position of hiring APs I would like to beg you (in a dignified, classy way) to do your part to end this perma-training culture. Take a chance on someone who only has internships on their resume! Be the Bradley Cooper to someone’s Lady Gaga!
I interviewed the hilarious and talented Laura Mayer about all of her hiring manager secrets. It’s a long read, but very worth your time if you’re looking for an edge on your job applications.
We also talked about her podcast Shameless Acquisition Target, which follows her quest to get acquired and make enough money to buy a house. It’s a commentary on how the industry functions today and the traps that you can fall into when trying to make a living off of podcasts. I have spent many afternoons this summer in the garden, listening to the latest episode and live texting my reactions to my friends. If you haven’t listened yet, do it now before the finale is released.
Alice: How do you think this industry has changed since you've gotten into it?
Laura: I started in public radio in 2008, 2009, and there was this really pervasive sense of scarcity. You just felt lucky to have a job. And then when I was at Panoply, it was like, "Oh, I'm suddenly making a livable wage. I have dental insurance." So it was less of a financial scarcity mindset, and it was more: "We work at the podcast factory, where we have to make as many shows as possible so that we can create as many ad units as possible." That wasn't the emphasis when I was at WNYC. There was one project to be made.
One thing that hasn't changed since I started in podcasting is the sense of so much opportunity. But the thing that I have seen is this continued emphasis on volume of shows. And volume of ad units. I think that's being kind of shortsighted in a lot of cases. You still have to make this thing good. And I think that might be one thing that is different from my time in public radio, which is that in a lot of cases — and I'm not saying this is the case for every show I've worked on — but I think that there is this idea that the podcast doesn't necessarily need to be good, it just needs to be done. And that's a different way of doing business.
AW: I was listening to episode two of Shameless Acquisition Target and you were talking about the way that the industry has changed and the feeling of being at “the podcast factory.” Do you still recommend this line of work to people?
Resources
The period between an internship or fellowship and your first “real” job (probably associate or assistant producer, aka AP) can be really hard. Everyone is telling you that you’re overqualified for internships but underqualified for AP roles.
How do you make that jump? It can be a difficult time, when you’re short on money and applying to jobs feels like throwing an application into a void, with no expectation that you’ll ever hear back. I remember being terrified all the time. And I’ve heard from many of you that you’re stuck in that in-between space too. Here are some steps that you can take to get a foothold.
Start while you’re in your internship.
I say this all the time, but build relationships with your coworkers. Tell them that you’ll be looking for work after your internship is over and ask if they know of any shows (inside your workplace or out) that might need some support.
Be super up front with your manager that you’re looking for an AP role and ask for their advice on making that jump. Chances are your manager has been in the same weird limbo themselves and will be happy to help ease the transition. They might introduce you to someone else in the organization who is hiring, or share other connections.
Be dependable.
If you say you’re going to do something, do it. Double check your work before turning it in. Figure out an organizational system that works for you.
I want to be clear: this doesn’t mean that you can’t make mistakes or struggle with a task.
Some of my biggest early career screw ups came from not asking for help when I needed it because I wanted to be seen as trustworthy and good at my job. My ego got in the way of getting the help I needed.
Turns out the thing that actually makes people trust you at work is asking for help as soon as a problem comes up, instead of trying to hide it in hopes that no one will notice.
If something is taking longer than you expected, let your manager know that you might need more time. If you’re stuck on a step in the process, ask for help. It’s not catastrophic to struggle with something, everyone has growing pains. It’s part of the process.
Classifieds
Internships
Summer Podcast Intern, The Wall Street Journal, ($900/week plus cost of public transportation)
Spring Podcast Intern (part-time), The Wall Street Journal, ($25.71/hr)
CNN Spring Podcast Intern (part time), CNN, Warner Media (no pay information given)
Podcast Intern, The Record, Recorded Future (no pay information given)
This Is Uncomfortable Intern, Marketplace, American Public Media. ($18/hr) (plus, you’d get to work with me!)
Multimedia Intern, The American Civil Liberties Union ($18.57-$21.42/hr depending on experience)
Development Intern (part-time), Radio Ambulante ($10/hr)
Fellowships
Maximum Fun Production Fellow, Maximum Fun ($17.50/hr)
Kroc Fellowship, NPR ($50,000/yr plus benefits)
iHeart’s NextUp Initiative, iHeart Radio ($2,000/month)
Associate/Assistant Producers
Podcast Associate Producer (Seasonal), NFL (No pay information given)
Associate Producer of Branded, Pineapple Street Studios, Audacy ($67,000-70,000/yr)
Associate Producer, Audacy (No pay information given)
Other jobs
Reporter, KUCB, Corporation for Public Broadcasting ($44-56,000/yr)
Reporter, New Hampshire Public Radio, ($40,200-48,199/yr)
Reporter, Health & Equity, NHPR, ($46,200-55,399/yr)
Morning Edition Producer, NHPR, ($46,200-55,399/yr)
If you are hiring interns, fellows or other entry level positions, send your job postings and rates to startingout [at] transom [dot] org and I’ll list them in the next issue. Please note that Starting Out features only paid opportunities.
Laura recommends
Normal Gossip: obviously
Once Upon a Time…at Bennington College: Give me all the gossip in a cafeteria at Bennington College at the end of last century, PLEASE
The Town with Matthew Belloni: for all of my Hollywood industry goss needs